related topics: Protest in front of Giza Zoo
Minutes of Meeting held with his Excellency Egyptian Minister of Agriculture 16 April 2011, 4:00pm
Minutes of Meeting 16 April 2011.doc
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Minutes of meeting with his Excellency: Dr. Abu Hadid - Egyptian Minister of Agriculture
16 April 2011-04-17
Summary: The meeting was scheduled upon request from Dina Zulfikar on the 14th of April. to discuss the critical case of the Orangutan – Chimps Saga of Central Zoos. On the 15th, it was decided to include all 3 topics of the protest, which are:
1. Central Zoos Management
2. Cites Wildlife
3. General , Domestic and other animals
On the 15th I received confirmation from the Minister's office and I was asked to supply the list of attendances, I made call on the protest page, and I received call confirming attendance from Heather, who contacted Amina Abaza, who confirmed and welcomed invitation. Susie Nassar confirmed attendance in the event page, who supplied also names of Mona Khalil,
We agreed on discussing each of the 3 topics equally, by giving each subject 20 min. However what went on was different:
Meeting started: 4:00pm
His Excellency Minister of Agriculture Mr. Ayman Abu-Hadid
Mr.Hesham Meibed, Minister Office Manager
Dr. Hassan Shafik, Chairperson of GOVS
Dr. Fatma Tammam, Central Zoos Director, and Head of the Egyptian Management Authority for CITES and Standing Committee
Dr. Nabil Sidki, Cites Consultant, former Central Zoos Director and Head of the Egyptian Management Authority for CITES and Standing Committee
Animal Welfare Representation:
Dr. Shehab – EFAW Chairperson
Dr. Mourad Ragheb – Donkey Sanctuary
Dina Zulfikar – Wildlife Unit – ESAF
Amina Abaza – SPARE – World Animal Day Ambassador
Mona Khalil – ESMA – Chairperson
Bahra Fahmy – ESMA – board
Susie Nassar – ESMA – board
Amr Hamdy – AWARE Chairperson
Heather Nagi – "Dolphins Hurghada" who represented Marine connection
Colin – animal protection advocate
Whilst Dina Zulfikar distributed the Demands list containing the 3 topics on all attendants, Mona Khalil said that as Heather Nagy, from Hurghada has to catch the plane, Heather would start by addressing her point about the Dolphins at Wagdy Saad held in quarantine since over 6 months.
Dina Zulfikar said, so we are starting by Topic 2 about Cites/Wildlife Unit in the demands #11 – and that would be the topic to start with after which we continue with the demands from 1 to 10 same topic..
Word was given to Heather Nagy who explained the current situation as stated in demand #11 topic Cites Wildlife, ' My name is Heather Nagy and I am here representing Marine Connections , animal welfare organizations and individuals here in Egypt. On the 10th of August last year four Dolphins were imported from Japan to Hurghada . The Dolphins were held in a 9x9 swimming pool for three months and then because of the public outcry moved to the desert were the owner Wagdy Saad was given land . The Dolphins are still in the Desert and even though we realize the pool complies with international standards this is a building site with no facility. The Dolphins' are still under quarantine which means over seven months quarantine has been given to allow the owner to finish his building and Quarantine is meant for specific reasons . The Governor of Hurghada said at the time once the quarantine period finished the dolphins would have to be sent to Sharm or confiscated' at which point the Minister and others spoke. The Minister ordered immediate investigation on the matter, stating clearly if the conditions are not complying, immediate confiscation would take place.
Mona Khalil, translated, it was agreed that this matter was to be immediately addressed the following day.
Dr. Mourad Ragheb started by saying that it is vital that the Ministry lays more attention for the legislations for animal welfare, and spoke about the project for improving (cows breeding farms).
His Excellency the Minister of Agriculture Mr. Ayman Abu-Hadid said this is long procedure and we are working on.
Amr Hamdy of AWARE, said the illegal smuggling and permits have been documented in Sharm El Sheikh, permits given are not right, referring to the Gorillas and Chimps held at Gamal Omar's facility. Dr. Nabil Sidki; (former Central Zoos Director and Head of the Egyptian Management Authority for CITES and Standing Committee) said in answer that back in 2004 Egypt was expelled from WAZA and was about to be expelled from Cites, in 2008, he invited in Mr. John Sellar to see himself the Facility of Mr. Gamal Omar in Sharm and see the conditions the animals are kept in. Amr interrupted all permits were not legal, Dr. Nabil answered, Gamal Omar was a well connected person to the former President of Egypt and that this was the best he could do. The Minister said that since the revolution of the 25th of January, no one is well connected or above law.
Dina Zulfikar started we need to go back to the topic 2, Cites and wildlife distributed. She started by item #1 which states "Separating the divisions and Management of: Division of Central Zoos from the division of CITES/WILD LIFE. No officer of an institution which is itself in the business of transferring & exhibiting wildlife should be in charge of granting CITES permissions" – The minister said in reply, well both are under supervision and umbrella of GOVS, who in sequent is under supervision of the Minister stating that is no conflict of interest because they are monitored, Dina said well the Cites – Wildlife Unit as per points in this same topic submitted: 2,3,7,8 and 9 proves that they are not doing their job properly. The Minister directed his remarks to Dr. Hassan Shafik, Dr. Nabil Sidki and Dr. Fatma, why is this happening; this has to be dealt with.
Susie Nassar and Heather Nagy left, as Heahter already asked to be excused for catching the plane, promises were made that following up the #11 demand which Heather raised will be continued and they would be in contact with Mona who would contact Heather directly.
Dr. Shehab said we are happy to attend this meeting, we look foreword to extend roundtable meetings with GOVS, and he handed a paper to the Minister to sign. Mona Khalil said, excuse me what is being signed, Dr. Shehab said the WSPA project, Mona said, well we do not agree on this, Bahra said so too, Amina said SPARE is not a member of the Federation! The Minister said, I thought you are all represented in the EFAW (Egyptian Federation of AW), Dr. Mourad Ragheb said, Animal welfare is represented in OIE, EFAW , all should be under same umbrella, once, all agree by vote who to represent them. Dr. Shehab said, we call for a meeting to elect the EFAW representation.
Dr. Mourad said that it is a must to hold regular meetings and EFAW would select a representative to be in contact regularly with GOVS, Dr. Shehab added we call for activating Animal Welfare Unit in the GOVS and we would select a representative.
Dina Zulfikar, referring to pint #8 and #9 in the cites/wildlife topic 2. Cites and Wildlife Unit,, said submitted is complaints since 2009, nothing is done, mentioning specifically Tolba center which supplies animals for scientific research, Lions Village, smugglers, exotic pet trade, unmonitored circuses, unmonitored facilities. The Minister directed inquiry to Dr. Hassan Shafik and Dr. Fatma Tammam Undersecretary of States and Head of the Egyptian Management Authority for CITES and Standing Committee, stating these matters should be immediately dealt with
Dina Zulfikar, said back to topics,. Now we need to address topic 1, Central Zoos Director, again the demand #1 is: separating the divisions, referring to: points 2, 3, and 7 in the demands list, explaining that the former central zoos director violated PAAZAB standards clearly in point 2, 3, and 4, which leads to, the Central Zoos are not functioning according to standards specified by PAAZAB (Dina referred to the specs. And read them clearly). The Minister addressed the Central Zoos Director and former Central Zoos Director, Dr. Nabil said, each and every step we made we consulted the PAAZAB, according to PAAZAB the Giza Zoo should establish relations with 2 member zoos of WAZA, we chose to establish relation with AWPR and thus we accepted the Orangutans, the PAAZAB followed every step.
Amina Abaza said, all helped previously in revitalizing the Giza zoo project, the cooling of bears enclosure, the website, chimps..etc. but no maintenance, the cooling bears enclosure system which costed half a million Egyptian Pounds sponsored by EGITRADE is not working for 2 years. Dr. Fatma Tammam, Central Zoos Director said, all is working, all AW shacked their heads, the Minister addressed Dr. Fatma, all do not agree about this fact? Lets go back to points 2, 3. The Minister addressed Dina Zulfikar saying it is out of question that Orangutans would be sent back, the Central Zoos are offering alternate solutions and I have been personally involved in this matter. He then asked Dr. Fatma to state her proposal. Dr. Fatma said we would construct with help of AWPR and PAAZAB exhibition enclosure and we were considering getting back the chimp in Fayoum Zoo. We have the place and plan but I would not discuss this with you,. The Minister interrupted addressing Dr. Fatima, you have to be transparent and address this topic with her (Dina) show her what you have, listen to critics, the Animal Welfare Groups may even help you in funding.
Bahra Fahmy said, well, this would take much time, I am here for one thing; stop the strychnine poison, how much does the GOVS pay each year to import strychnine poison. The Minister addressed Dr. Hassan Shafik the Chairperson of GOVS said we do not have an alternative to strychnine, Bahra, Amina, Mona and Am r said that Strychnine ought to be banned, it has harmful effects on man too, Dina added also on wild animals. The Minister asked what is the alternative, Mona Khalil said TNR on the expenses of AW societies we have donors and sponsors
Meeting was adjourned 5:45
Wildlife unit - ESAF
DEMANDS CONCERNING CENTRAL ZOOS, CITES, AND OTHER AUTHORITIES:
PROTEST DEMANDS –
TOPIC 1: CENTRAL ZOOS MANAGEMENT,
1) Separating the divisions and Management of: Division of Central Zoos from the division of CITES/WILD LIFE. No officer of an institution which is itself in the business of transferring & exhibiting wildlife should be in charge of granting CITES permissions.
2) ORANGATANS: Find immediate solution for the wrong technical decision taken by former central zoos director to acquire 3 Orangutans from Al Ain Zoo (AWPR) United Arab Emirates which violates PAAZAB standard which did not only put the animals in risk because of non complying conditions to meet the species specific needs but also resembles burden on the budget of Giza Zoo if an enclosure would be installed, under the current economic conditions the zoo has priorities and we are not a rich country, thus the suggestion and only solution would be sending those Orangutans to a facility member of PAAZAB or International Organizations specialized in Orangutans which have enclosures which meet the species specific needs (8.1.5 Institutions should not willfully acquire and maintain animals for which they cannot reasonably provide the appropriate species' requirements as well as the requirements outlined in this standard.)
3) CHIMPS: As a result of the wrong technical decision taken by former Central Zoos Director by acquiring in the 3 Orangutans, without having the proper requirements or facility, they were placed in three of the cells of the chimps enclosure, as a result, a chimp was sent single to Fayoum zoo (violation to PAAZAB standard and unacceptable to the animal welfare standard, (8.2.7 Animals of social species should normally be maintained in compatible social groups. Individuals should only be kept isolated for conservation reasons, veterinary treatment and hospitalisation, for the benefit of the individual, the group, or other justifiable reasons and where such isolation is not detrimental to the individual animal.) whilst the other 2 chimps were sent to Alexandria zoo which does not have exhibit enclosure suitable for the 2 chimps, thus one chimp sees daylight every 48hrs, thus violating PAAZAB standard and unacceptable to animal welfare standard. In conclusion, those 3 chimps have been kept in non complying conditions since almost a year. We want the Chimps back and priority would be given to establishing a chimps enclosure, already blue prints and design were submitted since beginning of 2009. (8.1.1 The World Zoo Conservation Strategy of the World Association of Zoos and Aquariums actively identifies responsible institutions as being those that consider animal welfare issues. All institutions should ensure the welfare of the animals under their care and should afford protection to those animals, in compliance with the relevant Acts and Regulations (see annex A). 8.1.2 All institutions should provide suitable environments to the animals in their care, and in so doing should consider the following: an animal’s motivations to perform functions and behaviours important to itself; and b) the cognitive aptitudes and requirements of some animals will have a direct bearing on the nature and complexity of the environment they require. 8.1.3 A balance should be achieved between the provision of enclosures that fulfil the needs of the animal and the demands of the visitor to the institution for aesthetically appealing institution enclosures. 8.1.4 Institutions should determine the requirements of species and, where possible, individual animals, and assess their ability to effectively supply those requirements, particularly in relation to the long-term accommodation and care of animals.)
4) DEATH REPORT ORANGATAN: We need to know why did one of the 3 Orangutans die? result of any post-mortem examination and laboratory investigations should be public on zoo official site. Has necessary check been done to the other 2 Orangutans? Was the post-mortem examination and laboratory investigations done in Central labs or Giza Zoo labs? We demand full report done by superior authority other than zoo employees.
(8.4.17 Newly-arrived animals should be kept isolated or in quarantine for as long as is necessary or in accordance with the veterinary import permit issued by the relevant authority (see annex A), to ensure proper examination, acclimatization and quarantine of new arrivals before being introduced to other animals in the collection. 8.4.18 Clinical waste and refuse should be regularly removed and disposed of in a manner approved by the municipal authority. For animals that are in quarantine, 10 Record keeping NOTE For further information see annex B. SANS 10379:2005 Edition 1 20 10.4 The records should provide the following information: date of death and result of any post-mortem examination and laboratory investigations)
5) Immediate ban of the exotic animals photo sessions which are still taking place regardless of the PAAZAB standard and the risk of infection from animal to man and from man to animal.
6) Call for establishing regular round table meetings with the new management of the Giza Zoo, and of CITES/WILD LIFE division to discuss implicating program to maintain best possible conditions, cooperation and timely response to urgent matters.
7) Discussing the long term plan of the zoo and discussing what can be done now to mitigate the suffering of animals, a good example is the Elephant chained for life long , not able to move for more than half a meter, another example is the deplorable conditions of the dogs/cats enclosure, the zoo is not place for domestic animals.
8) Stop delivery of confiscated equines to Zoo without giving owner option of paying fine to take back his donkey or horse.
9) All Zoos must have one day off during week so animals can rest.
10) Micro chip all animals inside any Zoo , no more additions to any zoo and funds to be used for improvement of all of the zoos in Egypt
TOPIC 2 : CITES –WILDLIFE UNIT:
1) Separating the divisions and management of: Division of Central Zoos from the division of CITES/WILD LIFE. No officer of an institution which is itself in the business of transferring & exhibiting wildlife should be in charge of granting CITES/WILDLIFE permissions.
2) CITES do not abide by their own rules or regulations, so they must be replaced. (Current CITES/WILD LIFE officers fail to Answer the numerous complaints and inquiries sent officially regarding: smuggling, pet shop trade in exotic animals, Friday market (as attached) we demand these officers to be replaced! They even do not answer their phones?)
3) Monitoring and reviewing the licenses given to private facilities (circuses and private facilities such as zoos, or facilities claiming to provide animals for research) as per EEAA laws protecting and monitoring wildlife. Law 9 year 2009 (i.e. closing illegal unlicensed breeding farms)
4) Immediate ban of the exotic animals photo sessions which are still taking place regardless of the PAAZAB standard and the risk of infection from animal to man and from man to animal.
5) Call for establishing regular round table meetings with the new management of the Giza Zoo, and of CITES/WILD LIFE division to discuss implicating program to maintain best possible conditions, cooperation and timely response to urgent matters.
6) Replacing the Quarantine Authority representatives at Airports.
7) Egyptian penal code and the environment law enforced. It is time to become a country that respects it s own laws, this would include close monitoring and high penal fines for the hunting for exotic pet trade, wildlife for zoos and private collections, Falcon trapping, fishing, tradition medicine, sport hunting for tourism, Egyptian sport hunters, and the traditional hunting (Autumn bird catching, Winter water bird hunting, mammals in desert areas used for food such as gazelles and barbary sheep.
8) Enforce laws to stop the killing of wildlife as pests, non specific use of poison and traps.
9) Prohibition of owning wildlife in homes – shops – restaurants. (law 9 year 2009 of EEAA and in law 4 Ministry of Environment, which states clearly that wild animals are prohibitted to be owned except for facilities (scientific research centers - zoos - circus trainers) which obtain special permit issued by the Minister ). (i.e. Closing and banning the Friday Animal Market, Animal Kingdom and Lion Village) Strychnine poison should be banned! It is time to become a country that respects it s own laws! Monitoring and forming committees with GOVS and AW representations to put end IMMEDIATELY to using poison such as strychnine as a mean used for addressing roaming dogs and cats, which endangers all wildlife and environment.(many complaints were sent and documented .. see attached.).
10) Micro chip all animals inside any Zoo , Circus, Scientific research centers suppliers, no more additions to any zoo and funds to be used for improvement of all of the zoos in Egypt
11) Animals used in veterinary Schools and animal testing should be limited, available public information and humanely treated, supervised.
Answering inquiries sent regarding the dolphinariums and the dolphins imported during last year and this year in transparency. Quarantine is Quarantine and is for a purpose...i.e. to avoid contamination etc. People should not be given Quarantine to work on a building. Land deals of all private owners should be investigated . (The Govenor of Hurghada has clearly stated when the quarantine period is finished the four Dolphins from Taiji would have to be moved to Sharm or confiscated . CITES has continued to give the owner quarantine for no reason other to avoid this allowing this man to finish his building around these animals. CITES have also said that the dolphins where kept is a small 9x9 swimming pool for three days when in fact this was Three months . Once again we have complete fabrications of the truth from CITES and hope this is not to accommodate the owner because his relatives had connections with the old regime. The four Dolphins are on a building site in the Hurghada desert despite the pool complying this is still a building site . The owner had pushed the Hurghada government into handing this land over for his dolphinarium and they did so quickly only to avoid an international outcry.) Please answer our inquiries and calls related to the Immediate confiscation for the Taiji Dolphins. Funds will be made available for the rescue at no expense to Egypt.
TOPIC 3: DEMANDS CONCERNING CENTRAL ZOOS, CITES, AND OTHER AUTHORITIES:
Minister of Agriculture, etc.,- DEMANDS:
2) Coordination with animal groups for National campaign of TNR
3) Pet shops: Authorized parties or authorities to give license must be GOVS + Health + City Council and a limited number of animals must be stated clearly and kind. All should be regularly monitored and we demand the right as AW org. to be part of the committee which regularly checks conditions.
4) Humanity way for the transfer of rabbit and chicken, we would like to see animals for slaughter transported in a more humane fashion. (i.e. rabbits are transferred in bags of rice to the stores, and they put more than 5 chickens in the same wooden cage.
5) Stricter demands on slaughter houses .
6) All camels , horses and donkeys used for tourism have to be under special regulations and supervision of tourism police and veterinary authorities and should be pulled out incase of malnutrition , injury or disease.
7) Licensing equines pulling carts and putting them under veterinary supervision every six months
8) Animals used in veterinary Schools and animal testing should be limited, available public information and humanely treated, supervised.
9) Immediate confiscation of all domestic animals tied up inside and outside zoo, lion village etc.
10) Review and discussion on possible Changing the head of Veterinary Authorities. (getting a permanent reliable head).
11) Need a new Animal Welfare Law. Overall law protecting animals.